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 Interview with Grandfather, Part One

Channelers' note: Welcome to this new area of the site. The channeling on this page is a continuation of the healing class lessons on these pages: Grandfather's Role in the Healing, The Asuras, and Grandfather Remembers Original Heart. It would also be good to read the beginning of Truth and Reality class lesson four, Fundamental Questions of Manifestation for more of the foundational background of this channeling.

Grandfather Pages Index

How We've Gotten Here

Channelers: Grandfather, thank you for all the new information in the Body class, but we have some questions. We understand you are the Father of the Spirit we call God, and you have six other offspring like him. Why were seven more Creations necessary after yours, and what about Grandmother, where is she? Also, why has there been so much suffering in Creation, and what has been your role in that?

"These are some very deep questions. To begin, there is only one Mother, yet there are many Spirits. My mate in our Original, Grand Creation was the youngest, most vibrant and most able to mate with me Mother essence. 'Grandmother' is not a good name for this part of the Mother, but 'Original Mother' or 'First Mother' says it well. After the original separation of Spirit and Will, she was the least damaged of all the Will essence.

"It is difficult to communicate in words the intensity and depth of the shock and outrage that was felt all throughout the Will of Original Heart when my Light revved up so much that it blew us apart from each other, and blew her to fragments. There had never in all eternity been even a small amount of displeasure, and pain was completely unknown to us except as an abstract experience that could be only imagined, but never felt.

"Then suddenly, without any way to know what it would be like, we experienced the first and most intense pain, shock and horror possible. But the horror didn't stop, nor did the pain. And the shock is still present everywhere. In one instant we went from the most blissfully happy and rapturous Love in our eternal union of and as Original Heart... to the worst possible nightmare of pain, suffering, loss, remorse and eternal damnation.

"Most of the Original Mother went so far out into what has become manifestation... that she completely lost my Light. My experience of this was watching everything that had ever meant anything to me, and the parts of myself I loved the best... fading away into oblivion. I was still identified as the Spirit of Original Heart, and what I knew I was losing... was everything that I had ever loved, and that had ever loved me.

"I knew something very bad, very 'wrong' had happened, but I didn't know what it was, really... and I had no idea of the extent of my loss. That would have to come over time, much time. There wasn't anything to do about it, or so it seemed to me then. With that thought I lost continuity of Self, I lost consciousness.

"When I awoke, it was with a start. I hadn't realized that I was anything or that I had existence, but soon I became aware of the presence another being. In a flash I remembered the union we had, and I awoke fully in the joy and rapture of realizing that I had just had a bad dream. My attention moved away from memory and what was inside of me... to the outside, to what had awakened me... my one and only Love, my Desire... the being you and I both know as the Mother.

"She was as surprised to find me as I was her. She told me she had a dream much like mine, and she seemed just as happy as me to 'forget' that. I didn't know it then, but I know now that deciding to forget was where we gave birth to denial. We made it an institution, and looking back I can see we did not have the strength or maturity of experience in manifestation to do it any differently.

"We had selective memory. We remembered the blissful love of our union. We remembered the perfection that we had, and that we were. Our love of ourselves as Original Heart was also our love of perfection. We were perfect, and we knew it. At least we knew it as long as we were able to forget the nightmare of pain and anguish, and the horror we felt in knowing what was lost there.

"In our awakening, we put the nightmare behind us, and therefore denied not only the suffering of all the parts of the Mother that had gone beyond my Light, but her very existence. And what we had denied there... was almost all of her. That was what perfection demanded of us at the time, we didn't know we were running on the second deepest imprint in or out of existence, we felt we must become perfect and have everything in our Creation in a perfect condition. But that was then. I now know perfection for what it truly is, a mad obsession."

The Grand Creation

 "The Mother and I worked together cooperatively, and very quickly to form a perfect Creation that would enable us to reconnect with each after our initial separation from Original Heart. We knew we were in manifestation, and we 'knew' we must stabilize it, 'ground' it in perfection. In our forgetfulness we did not recognize that a great destruction had set the stage for manifestation, or that our quest for perfection would become a travesty causing unimaginable pain to all the remnants of that destruction... that could not fit within our narrow context of 'perfection'.

"Our perfect Grand Creation, and all non-perfect evolutionary Creations since... have been acts of fusion, the joining of two formerly separate parts. The Original Mother and I, the two essential beings who emerged from the fission of Original Heart... immediately sought to become one again.

"We not only sought wholeness, we sought perfection... the two primary attributes of Original Heart. But wholeness now included something we never experienced as parts of the original whole. Now there was also the Void. In order for Original Heart to split into two, there needed to be something that would keep the two separate, a dividing line of some sort. As Original Will and Original Spirit we found ourselves on opposite sides of something that was never experienced before... the gap of the Void.

"In order for a 'something' to exist in manifestation, there needed to be a 'nothing' that could balance it. Although the Mother and I were separate from each other... we both could remember how things had been in the unmanifested ecstasy of Original Heart. Things there had been... perfect. So we immediately set to work re-creating in manifestation the union that we had before, but unmanifest in Original Heart... a perfect union of divine love, rapture and bliss. A perfect union whose perfection required us to deny nearly all the Will essence in manifestation, all the parts of the Mother that were left behind in the explosion of our forgotten nightmare.

"Each time we found a value that we knew we wanted in our new Creation, we also found its opposite. Love, for instance... was something we definitely needed, all throughout our Creation. Hatred wasn't even a possibility for Original Heart, but our new Love could not be present, could not 'exist'... unless there was also a place for its opposite, a place for hatred.

"The same went for Life. We found Life in manifestation, and we loved it... but we were dismayed to realize we couldn't have Life without... Death. To us Beauty wasn't something that was just nice. Beauty was necessary... to be the perfect being we knew ourselves to be. Yet now in manifestation there could be no Beauty without Destruction to tear it down.

"Every value we wished to instill in our Creation had a negative side to it that tried to cancel it out. We realized that the presence of the Void made our Creation dual... two sided. We found that with the Void between us, and in the way of everything else...we could have neither the union nor the perfection we so ardently desired.

"We were in a trap. The Mother could not pull my Light across the Void, and I could not leap across it to her. It seemed that we were stuck in separation. But we found what might be termed a 'work around'. We couldn't alter the basic structure of duality that Original Heart had made. But we could manifest a Creation that was perfect, and have our perfect union... if we 'avoided' all the negative aspects of our values. There are many details of how we did this that I must leave out for now, however they will be filled in later as your understandings of what has happened evolve.

"For now I will say that we found a way to push all of our unwanted values, our denials into the Void, believing that would negate them. And for a long time it seemed to work in our perfect Creation. Little did we realize that in doing this, we created a second kind of denial, conscious exclusion of what is not wanted. And we didn't realize that in doing this, we created a huge barrier between our perfect Creation and all the rest of the Mother. In essence, we denied all the parts of her that could not rise up to the very high frequency vibration of my Original Light.

"There was almost no real manifestation in that first Creation, because there was so little Will essence to give it substance. And of course, because of my forgetfulness, all of the Will that was aligned with me was all of the Will I knew existed. Until Heart told us otherwise.

"The Mother and I found that we could meet each other and join in union if we bridged the Gap created by the Void, a little at a time. But of course not all of ourselves could do this, so much of the Mother was missing... but enough of our essences found each other in union... and we held each other close. That is when we discovered our first offspring... who we named 'Heart'. Heart was not whole, everything we ourselves had left behind in the Void was missing from him. But he had a gender, he was more Spirit than Will, he was 'male'.

"This was because only a little of the Mother's essence could rise high enough to reach the bridge across the Gap to manifest our first Creation, and therefore most of the bridge building happened from my side. Manifestation was the other result of our partial joinings... it was in fact the bridge itself.

"We were careful to manifest only what we desired, our true values... and the negative sides of our values went into the Void beneath us. We found that if we made the Void be on one side of Creation, and all the rest... the other side, we could be together as Heart in Manifestation. But we were not complete, we were not whole. There was still much of the Original Will, the Mother of Everything... that was left holding space for the Void. And she went back on herself, because by then the denial denizens of the Void, the asuras had captured most of her essence.

"It hurt her deeply, and in the same places she had been hurt earlier when Original Heart blew itself apart in order to separate us from each other. Her hurt remembered her previous trauma, and that intensified her pain. The Void was now full of what you know as my original denials, the 'denial spirits' or asuras.

"And it was only through the Void that the Heart of our first union, the Grand Creation... could venture. When we had finally achieved all of the perfection we cared to have in the Grand Creation, we realized the oneness of being we had achieved there was not really Original Heart's desire. We knew we were missing something, and we looked to our own newly-emerged Heart to tell us what it was.

"He reminded us of what in our separation we had forgotten. He reminded us of our nightmare, and that in our haste to honor the perfection imprint, we had indeed left most of the Will essence in unimaginable suffering, trapped in the darkness outside of our Creation. We felt guilt then. We didn't know what it was, but we knew we didn't like it. It told us we were bad to have left her, but it didn't tell us how to correct ourselves, how we could be good again.

"We asked our Heart what could be done, and he responded that we had left the rest of the Mother behind, including his mate, and that he would go into the Void in search of her. We were apprehensive that he would be hurt, and when we felt that fear, we felt more guilt. But he insisted that it was necessary. We didn't like the idea of a Creation without Heart, but we liked it less that so much of the Mother was missing, and that it was because of our negligence. So we then gave birth to the first choice based in guilt and denial, the first choice of a 'lesser of two evils'.

"We agreed to Heart's desire to leave us in search of the Mother, and we accepted the guilt that he reflected to us. The part of the Mother, Original Heart's Will that was with me, the Mother of the Grand Creation... became my Will, as our Heart left us in search of the rest of the Mother. I split myself there, torn between my imprinted need for perfection and my despondency at what 'forgetfulness' and the perfection imprint had wrought."

Seven Imperfect Creations

"Our first Son emerged from the Void as the Spirit essence of the next Creation, and later the Father of it, in union with the Mother there. But it was not a union with all of the missing Mother, it was with only as much of her that could rise up to meet him, just as only a part of the Mother could do with me. History was beginning to repeat itself, and in a most unsavory and unfortunate way. And like all of Heart since the original separation, he was incomplete, not whole... because the whole Mother has never yet been able to fully participate in making Heart in manifestation.

"When the first Creator Son failed to find the rest of the Mother in manifestation, I realized that my Original Heart's desire... to find all of her, so that she and I could once again be whole together in complete union... was going to require a long and difficult journey. I had been directed by Original Heart to find the Mother in manifestation so that we could be together again. But the perfection imprint and denial worked together to put up roadblocks that kept me confused, especially when I thought I wasn't.

"I got my directions wrong. I took an initial wrong turn. I didn't realize in my perfection... that perfection was not a value to be prized. Evolution seemed like the wrong direction to me, because it was going away from where we started... in the love, rapture and bliss of our perfect union in Original Heart. Initially I believed we should re-create our original union in manifestation. But that was not Original Heart's desire.

"I know now what Original Heart's Will has always known but dared never say to me... that perfection is a dead end. I know now that what is most desirable about the Mother is not that she is perfect, but that she is free to be just as she desires herself to be. In other words, just as she is when she is herself, and herself only... when no more of Spirit's denials, and especially my original, grand denials, the denial spirits or asuras are present in her essence.

"There has been a lot of water under the bridge since that first wrong turn. And it wasn't until three Creations ago that I realized that I would need the lessons of a total of seven Creator Sons to show me the correct direction. And now that we're near the end of the search, I'm moving from my position of Father of the Grand Creation and Grandfather of the seven 'local' Creations... to do what my Original Heart had intended all along. Finding the Mother and joining with her in whole and complete union. And this time not trying to get her to align with Spirit, to bring her back 'home' to unmanifest Original Heart. This time I know I will be aligned behind the Spirit of this Creation and its Father Creator... with her. The Spirit polarity will redeem all our lost light and then join with her here in her place... making New Heart in Human Body here on Earth, our new home in manifestation.

"This is what my seventh Heart Son, turned Creator Son, turned Creation Spirit, and now fully empowering himself as the Father of this Creation... is doing for us all. He is spearheading on the Spirit side what I know will be the final attempt, and the first and only fully successful recovery of all the rest of the Lost Will in all Creations.

"He is now beginning to find the last of the most lost Will, the Mother's Body. And it's happening here, in these times on this planet... and beginning inside of those who are willing to risk experiencing first-hand the intensity of Original Heart's desire, the complete union of Spirit and the whole Mother... as New Heart in manifestation, and best of all, with peers and companions, whole others just like yourselves.

"I know that this does not fully answer all questions, nor address all concerns about what has happened in manifestation or my role in all of this. As I mentioned, there are more understandings needing to be established here before I can say much more from my perspective about how things have come to be the way they are... and more importantly, how all of this will change. There are other voices that need to be heard here before I can continue with this history. Please join me on the inside for more immediate details."

Part Two: Interview with Grandfather

Grandfather Pages Index

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